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 Post subject: ape file errors
PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 5:52 pm 

Joined: Sun May 02, 2010 5:06 pm
Posts: 14
Hello:

I have been going threw my large disk collection and have been using the APE Interface in making copies of anything I need being done. I have come across BAD CRC, or a CRC ERROR and SECTOR NOT FOUND errors that I questiion if they are in the PROGRAM Area. (I dont worry if they are in the unused area of the disk) What are these errors? I have seen these errors and tried using VTOC FIX to look into them as well as disk scanners of all sorts. I dont try using APE on protected disks or games I have, seeing the disk will generate these errors hands down.

I love APE and what it has given me, in the past I have had to use DISKCOM3 to make copies but APE gives me more bang for my buck.

A happy APE USER
jim


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 Post subject: Re: ape file errors
PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 7:55 am 

Joined: Mon Jun 21, 2004 7:53 am
Posts: 329
It sounds like you may be trying to make regular ATR's from disks with copy protection. More often than not, games. Either that or your disks have errors or your drive is not reading properly. If your issue is copy protection, then AFAIK the only choice you have is to use the APE PROSYSTEM to make "copy protected .PRO" image from the disks in question. If you do this, be aware that you can damage/destroy your (old) original disk while the PROSYSTEM is trying to ascertain the copy protection. Some of these old disks will not take the abuse of multiple, multiple reads on their surface. Also, some of these old disks have loose oxide/binder and will "gunk up" your drive R/W head. Good idea to clean the R/W head with 91% Isopropyl Alcohol and a Q-Tip or cotton swap wrapped onto a Q-Tip-type stick. If you're not familiar with this, you might first search the web for "how to clean..." BTW, I'm assuming that you have registered APE, I don't know about PROSYSTEM on the "trial" version of APE.

If you are dealing with copy protection, then it doesn't make any difference about the error being in the "program area." The whole disk is fair game for copy protection. One caveat, if you have a 1050 Happy Drive or Super Archiver, then you can trace the load to find which sectors are actually being used. To be fairly sure about the loading pattern, you would need to do the trace several times, since some copy prot. schemes change the "special" sectors that the loader is looking for. EDIT: I should add that this only works for "single load" games. Games that go back for more data from the disk on other sectors couldn't be done this way.

What to do? If you have access to a 1050 Happy Drive or Super Archiver, then you can normally make a fully functional copy onto a good disk (preferably new) and then use that disk to convert to a PRO image. Even if unsuccessful, you should still have your original disk intact. If you don't have access to these drives, then you are at a disadvantage. Depending on how badly you want to do this, it might be worth buying a 1050 Happy board (if you have a 1050) and can install it. They are quite inexpensive these days -- around $40.

Another (lesser) possibility is that you have some ordinary unprotected Dos-type disks with errors. In this case, you can copy by sectors and the resulting ATR will be just as functional as the original, or you can copy file-by-file and you will not be able to copy bad files, but should be able to salvage most of the disk.

That should give you a couple of avenues of approach.
-Larry


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 Post subject: Re: ape file errors
PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 9:46 pm 

Joined: Sun May 02, 2010 5:06 pm
Posts: 14
Hello:

Yes I am a register user of APE, I have been a loyal AtARI person since my Atari 800 I still have and I am using a Atari 130xe which I do my APE work with. I have working on the collection of many many boxes of disk that I have, almost all of them from my BBS days, as well as a large collection of 'cracked' titles which I know wont go threw a scan of APE. I do have aging magnetics on some of the disks but I have put them aside and knowing I get a ERROR 144 when I try to format them, (A brand new 1050 disk drive which is working fine as well and speed checks are OK )

My question is the CRC errors, sector not found error as well as bad sectors on disks that I have, When I use VTOCFIX to see what it might come up, I can delele or not, but that is my own choosing. If I have a disk with a error in a non used area, Oh well I keep the log of it and review it later.

For cleaning heads I do both of my drives that I own with Alcohol and q-tip. I do that only if I have problems I cant solve. Seems that the magnetics are getting too old and I have many boxes of that. I have even tried other DOS programs to get around the bad disks, and seems I am about to toss the lot !

I know there is a lot of mumbo jumbo explaining CRC errors, and you can only confuse me in explain what it is ! For looking at errors I have only been in the look and see mode now, If I have a disk with more than 4 or 5 errors I stop and go onto another disk, I have two drives and the process is quick that way.

Thanks for your input, I have printed the answer and in the future I will report back on what I have found.

jim


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