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 Post subject: Dual Port interfaces
PostPosted: Mon Jul 05, 2010 9:38 am 

Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2005 10:52 pm
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Location: Ottawa, Ontario
A question about the dual-port interfaces: Are these pass-through SIO ports so the SIO2PC doesn't have to be the last device on the daisy chain, or are they configured to permit two Ataris to share a single connection to a host PC?

The former is a nice-to-have; the latter would be fantastic...


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 Post subject: Re: Dual Port interfaces
PostPosted: Mon Jul 05, 2010 1:19 pm 
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Both the RS232 and USB Dual-Port interfaces are pass-thru.

Steve


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 Post subject: Re: Dual Port interfaces
PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 10:59 pm 
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You could if you isolated the two ataris but you run the risk of access collisions in either case... maybe if you allow use the first atari on dirve 1-4 and second atari on 5-8. Being very careful about shared access to files. Isolating the computers prevents power and ground loops letting only signal pass. I experimented with this as an idea using drive one as a read only boot drive with batch files for each computers set up and sparta dos. boot and it ask what computer you are at 1 or 2. press and sparta in this case loaded batch that shut off 5-8 one 1 and for cpu 2 use config to make 5=>1 6=>2 etc. worked for most things but direct calls from some software got around this. I then decided to hook up the black box to one and the MIO to the other and let them remap the drives. this worked well enough and increased my ability to use both more safely. but it still had some programs that did not like pbi devices and got he raspberry response when that happened. Very few programs got around the mapping that way but some still collided when the program uses its own embedded routines for disk access and control. I know Stephen Cardin has released realdos to shareware (this dos has file locking and pbi routines that help prevent collisions). that may help you even more in your quest.



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 Post subject: Re: Dual Port interfaces
PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 9:52 pm 

Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2005 10:52 pm
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Location: Ottawa, Ontario
Alternatively, a few ICs should let a single Atari control the bus for four other computers, and handle contention issues as well.

Thus: Atari "Server" connected to drives (be they PBI or SIO, including SIO2PC), with three client Ataris hooked up to the server. If I decide to get really ambitious, I could write a small DOS for the clients that would be agnostic about the Server-side DOS - they'd merely send a path and filename, and the server would handle the rest, including contion issues (and maybe even let client A read FILENAME while client B is editing it, and client C has booted a rousing game of MULE)...

All I need now is some ICs and the time to do this...


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 Post subject: Re: Dual Port interfaces
PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 1:21 am 

Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2011 1:09 am
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So... the SIO cable can be used either with a disk drive connected to a computer, or a computer connected to an Atari?



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 Post subject: Re: Dual Port interfaces
PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 2:29 pm 
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The former is the intended use, where the pass thru lets you use it in a chain... the latter can be done as read only and with one atari accessing the device at a time. The problem would be if both Ataris try to access it at the same time or if you were trying to write to the files and then you might mess up who saved what last.... file locking prevents that as only one instance would be able to open a file for edits and writes. The was a sharing device that used logic ic to do this but without the propper os locking the files updates to a file by more than one user resulted in lost work. no merge just overwrites... that is why I suggest cardin's real dos and multiplexer or other sio sharing logic board if this it to be a real sharing and writing network other wise you can load stuff one at a time till your heart is content. You being traffic cop for it all.



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 Post subject: Re: Dual Port interfaces
PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 2:38 pm 
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@DAP-Ottawa

That would be pretty sweet... the Dos would have to let client A know file is read only and client B is the boss and client C could care less cause he just wants to play MULE!
The IC's would play traffic cop. and since it is agnostic the server responds to the generic requests.

my worry was in the idea of isolating the 5 volt and 12 volt sio of the ataris from one another many people are just jumpering them on 1200xl instead of using a nice diode for the 5 volt side of things and the 800's had the 12 volt as well.

DAP-Ottawa wrote:
Alternatively, a few ICs should let a single Atari control the bus for four other computers, and handle contention issues as well.

Thus: Atari "Server" connected to drives (be they PBI or SIO, including SIO2PC), with three client Ataris hooked up to the server. If I decide to get really ambitious, I could write a small DOS for the clients that would be agnostic about the Server-side DOS - they'd merely send a path and filename, and the server would handle the rest, including contion issues (and maybe even let client A read FILENAME while client B is editing it, and client C has booted a rousing game of MULE)...

All I need now is some ICs and the time to do this...



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 Post subject: Re: Dual Port interfaces
PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 3:17 pm 
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standard hook up for me would be ATARI computer, dual port interface to ape, high speed Atari Drives, low speed drives,tape etc, printers last, unless your tape drive has no pass thru then it would have to be last in the chain.

that let me use ape or real just by turning stuff on or off and in the software same deal.
works very well.

I can have a second atari on the chain at the end in a pinch and both are isolate on the 5 and 12 volt line by diodes as a precaution.

I have used the usb version on one Atari with the rs232 version on another Atari at the same time and ape served both just fine. just don't write or access from both Ataris the same device within ape at the same time.



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 Post subject: Re: Dual Port interfaces
PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 8:41 pm 

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I'm not trying to hook up multiple devices at once. I'm trying to figure out what I need in order to back up my collection of Atari floppies. I have an Atari 130XE and a compatible floppy drive for it. I know I'll need an SIO cable - preferably the USB one, as almost none of my computers have serial ports anymore. I'd prefer to use my MacBook so I can do this anywhere in the house, but when I'm working on this archival project, I'll have some Windows desktop machines handy if I need them.

What I need to know:

-What software will I need?
-How to hook it up?
-How to configure it?

Basically, would I hook it up like this:

Atari 130XE----Atari Floppy Drive----SIO2USB----Computer (running what software?)

Or:

Atari Floppy Drive----SIO2USB----Computer (running what software?)


Right now, I just want to archive as much as I can before those floppies degrade any further. Then I'll be able to restore them in the event of corruption. I just need to know what to get. I also don't know whether I should get the single or dual port SIO2USB cable. In the future, it would be nice to load games from the computer to the Atari, but my primary purpose right now is archival. I no longer have a printer for my Atari, and the only devices I have that do not have SIO pass-through capabilities would be a tape drive and a modem, neither of which I've used much in the past. If I did want to hook up the modem, could I connect it to the floppy drive's other SIO port or would I connect it to the second port on a twin-port SIO2USB module?



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 Post subject: Re: Dual Port interfaces
PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 11:44 pm 

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Well, I went ahead and ordered APE and the dual-port USB interface over a week ago. I hope that's all I'll need. Since no one responded to my setup question, I'll just have to use trial-and-error when it gets here.



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 Post subject: Re: Dual Port interfaces
PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2011 11:57 am 

Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2006 1:33 pm
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Warp2063 wrote:
Well, I went ahead and ordered APE and the dual-port USB interface over a week ago. I hope that's all I'll need. Since no one responded to my setup question, I'll just have to use trial-and-error when it gets here.

What you ordered will work fine for archiving. You should never have need to hook up the modem to the Atari, since APE has a very nice "modem emulator" feature. I use it a few times a week to do BBSing from my Atari 130XE.

I have my gear set up the following way (I only have a single SIO port USB device). My Atari has an SIO cable going into a 1050 folppy drive, set up as drive #2. Then there is an SIO cable going into the USB SIO2PC device which of course is plugged to my PC. This allows me to quickly boot any software from APE's D1. Choose a copy program (tons exist), and use the 1050 (drive 2) as source, and any other drive (via APE) as destination. Copy away.

Here is a video I posted a while back (excuse the quality) demoing the setup.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MsEiIhNf204

Below is a link to a post I made here. It shows a single pass copy of a double density disk, with both reads and writes going to APE drives. It's very fast. Make sure when you get APE, to setup the Pokey divisor. I have found that 05 is the lowest I can go and be 100% stable using a modified OS and SParta DOS X. With a small section of programs though, I can go all the way down to 0.
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=988


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 Post subject: Re: Dual Port interfaces
PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 10:18 am 

Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2010 9:49 am
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Wasnt sure if its the right place.. but it is the correct discussion..
I have the dual SIO/usb interface, I need to know which SIO socket is supposed to go towards the Atari 8 bit? I wish to unsolder that socket from the interface, wire directly to the atari PCB after removing the PCB SIO socket, and then using the other SIO in place of the origional SIO socket. Also extending the USB to a panel mounted location, as well as placing the LED's in a better spot via wiring.

The end result (WISH) is that you wave a stock looking unit with a few LED's and a usb socket.

So... is there a requirement for location of the interface within the chain? If it is acting as a drive it can be first with no problem.

The problem is where to put the hard drive..1020 printer within the case? I need my 1200XL out of storage!!


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 Post subject: Re: Dual Port interfaces
PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 2:30 pm 
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Either end is fine, it is a pass thru sio device. A nice idea! inside the case wired direct then you gain the extra sio ports and the usb. you could wire to the solder side of the board and you wouldn't need to remove the connector. taking off could save some space.... but you could use it a a mount if carefully drilled and using short enough screws/standoffs. just long enough to bite all the plastic but not long enough to obstruct the port cavity or touch the pins.



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 Post subject: Re: Dual Port interfaces
PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 7:17 am 

Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2010 9:49 am
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So I have removed the RF modulator and placed a zero ohm jumper from the ground plane to pin (4) also a ground.. this has givin me the room to mount a usb port onto the back panel.
this plug will mount directly into the SIO interface.
So now it is just a matter of wiring one side of the SIO to the motherboard and the other side to the panel mounted SIO port.
this should act as a pass thru with USB support. I also intend on mounting a 1020 printer internally to the case.. Any wiring advisement would be most appreciated.
Douglas


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