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 Post subject: MyIDE+Flash cart, dead?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 12:54 pm 

Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2010 1:44 pm
Posts: 6
I have an issue with my cart, something happened, not sure what, but for a few minutes my 130XE wouldnt work with anything plugged into the cart port (this started when the myide cart was in the machine), i let it sit for about 30 minutes, and carts, and my IDE + 2.0 now work, but my MyIDE cart wont... nothing i could do would make it work... finally i pulled the EEPROM out of it, it read fine on my programmer... but i erased it anyway, figuring i would just reprogram it...

I went and booted the flash util atr, and it erased the EEPROM fine, and then when it went to program it, it stopped at:
Bank [01/0F] Verify failed!

Programming operation FAILED!

i dont have a PLCC adaptor for the GAL in it (i only have 32-32/ 28-32, 40-44 PLCC adaptors), so i couldnt see if its still sane...

i dont see any physical damage to any of the traces on the PCB, but until i erased the EEPROM the machine wouldnt boot properly, would just try to boot from disk, and then freeze with blue screen/white cursor...

any ideas whats wrong?

pixelated


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 Post subject: Re: MyIDE+Flash cart, dead?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2011 4:55 am 
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Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2003 8:15 am
Posts: 1372
Location: netherlands
No idea......

Same problem about the GAL here.
I have no PLCC28-DIL28 adapter.
And if I did, my programmer supports upto GAL22v10 (not 26v12).

What is IDE 2.0?

Here is the 128k file you need for your programmer to program the eeprom.
Some atari's have issues with flashing cartridges, don't ask my why, I have read it somewere.
But if the eeprom is fine in your programmer, program it in there.
Let me know if it boots afterwards.

Later,
Sijmen

The file is also in the zip-file found in the 35F BIOS topic


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 Post subject: Re: MyIDE+Flash cart, dead?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2011 5:55 am 
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Joined: Sun Aug 10, 2003 11:51 am
Posts: 68
Location: The Netherlands
mr-atari wrote:
What is IDE 2.0?


http://www.atariage.com/forums/topic/179271-ide-plus-20-new-ide-host-adapter/



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 Post subject: Re: MyIDE+Flash cart, dead?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2011 10:22 am 

Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2010 1:44 pm
Posts: 6
mr-atari wrote:
No idea......

Same problem about the GAL here.
I have no PLCC28-DIL28 adapter.
And if I did, my programmer supports upto GAL22v10 (not 26v12).

What is IDE 2.0?

Here is the 128k file you need for your programmer to program the eeprom.
Some atari's have issues with flashing cartridges, don't ask my why, I have read it somewere.
But if the eeprom is fine in your programmer, program it in there.
Let me know if it boots afterwards.

Later,
Sijmen

The file is also in the zip-file found in the 35F BIOS topic


i have programmed this cart before with this same machine 3-4 times, so i know its ok (NTSC 800XL), and tried on my 130XE (PAL), and got the same thing, Block 00 programmed/verified fine, but block 01 failed...

i will try burning the EEPROM on my device programmer and see how it does tho... i am going to grab a couple PLCC to DIP adaptors for the smaller size PLCC's, but also my device programmer maxes out at 22v10's also...

pixelated


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 Post subject: Re: MyIDE+Flash cart, dead?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2011 12:26 pm 
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Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2003 8:15 am
Posts: 1372
Location: netherlands
Hmmm, ok. Strange.

The only experience I have is that while flashing my internal MyIDE with my BB attached, the EEPROM blew out.

My programmer saw "missing pins".... Bought a new 1 Mb and that solved the problem.

Perhaps the IDE 2.0 / flashcartridge combination has the same issue?

Later,
Sijmen.


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 Post subject: Re: MyIDE+Flash cart, dead?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2011 1:38 pm 

Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2010 1:44 pm
Posts: 6
ok i tried programming the FLASH in my device programmer, and it wouldnt verify about 30% of the way through, even tried it a few times, same place every time it failed verify...

i didnt have any 1Mbit devices, so i used a 2Mbit, and grounded A18 on the socket, and now it semi-works... i get the start menu and all, but when i try to use FDISK, it locks up, and when i try freecellXE, it has errors in the char set... so i am guessing there is something wrong with the GAL, but its partially working...

pixel


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 Post subject: Re: MyIDE+Flash cart, dead?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2011 1:31 am 
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Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2003 8:15 am
Posts: 1372
Location: netherlands
So the 1mb is indeed dead. Hmmm, did you flash it with IDE 2.0 attached?

I guess you can buy a eeprom+gal (pre-programmed) from steve.


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 Post subject: Re: MyIDE+Flash cart, dead?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2011 1:53 am 

Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2010 1:44 pm
Posts: 6
no, i never had both connected at the same time... so its more likely a issue with the cart... i will shoot steve an email tomorrow, i would just need a GAL, i have plenty of PLCC flash...

thanks,

pixelated


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 Post subject: Re: MyIDE+Flash cart, dead?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 8:57 am 

Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2010 1:44 pm
Posts: 6
mr-atari wrote:
So the 1mb is indeed dead. Hmmm, did you flash it with IDE 2.0 attached?

I guess you can buy a eeprom+gal (pre-programmed) from steve.


sorry i read this wrong for some reason...

the IDE Plus was plugged into my stock PAL 130XE, and the MyIDE+Flash cart was plugged into the cart slot of the IDE Plus.

i am still waiting to hear from Steve about a replacement GAL :'(

pixelated


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 Post subject: Re: MyIDE+Flash cart, dead?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 5:02 pm 
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Location: Cleveland, Ohio
mr-atari wrote:
Hmmm, ok. Strange.

The only experience I have is that while flashing my internal MyIDE with my BB attached, the EEPROM blew out.

My programmer saw "missing pins".... Bought a new 1 Mb and that solved the problem.

Perhaps the IDE 2.0 / flashcartridge combination has the same issue?

Later,
Sijmen.


With devices that have their own power supply and hook to the Atari bus somehow, you would have to be extremely careful with the design to not have the thing slowly (or quickly in many cases) blowing up ICs when the Atari is powered off.

If these devices are banging away at cartridges or the Atari PBI/ECI with 5v+ signals when the system/cartridge power is at 0v they are going to be eating ICs (and possibly whole Ataris) for breakfast.

Most TTL/LVTTL ICs have maximum input stresses that are rated as a fraction of VCC. Typically VCC +0.5v or +1v. That means if the VCC voltage is 5v, the device will tolerate Vih of up to 5.5/6v without damage.

The problem arises however if the VCC supply is allowed to fall to 0v, for example if the Atari is turned OFF and the external device is turned ON. Then, unless the self-powered device is designed with buffers that follow the Atari VCC voltage, the self-powered gadget is banging away at the ICs with VCC (now 0v) _plus_ 5v or 5.5v, the same stress as applying 10v+ signals to the chips with the Atari power on.

If the device has a cartridge pass-thru port and the cartridge VCC pin is connected to the Atari VCC, yet other signals are driven off the external power VCC, the same potential to damage devices will occur. (Cartridge VCC = 0v, I/O Vih = 5v!)

If you still have problems with parts dying when using the Black Box take a multimeter and with the Atari power OFF and the black box power ON, verify the BB is not applying _any_ signals to the Atari I/O pins.

How long a device can tolerate electrical overstress before going poof varies. More modern devices with thin gates will pop pretty quickly. I would expect that unless they have 'always on' clamping diodes on the input and were speced for hot socketing, even EPROM and old mask ROM parts will eventually die from that sort of constant overstress.

Steve


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 Post subject: Re: MyIDE+Flash cart, dead?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 11:42 pm 

Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2010 1:44 pm
Posts: 6
just as an FYI for others, as i sent this to Steve in email,

the IDE+ was powered by the 130XE, not an external PSU, so the address/data lines wouldnt be getting power, with no Vcc. So this is probably not the issue I had, but either way, I am not going to plug the MyIDE cart into the IDE+ again, as i only have one of each, and doing testing the 'hard way' isnt my thing...

pixelated


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