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 Post subject: File management utility suggestions?
PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 4:53 pm 

Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2005 6:47 pm
Posts: 85
Greetings,

Can anyone suggest any utility that can be used to copy files between APE and MyIDE?

I've been trying to figure out a way to copy a large number of files to a MyIDE hard drive, but keep running into obstacles. I have the computer attached via APE to a PC with all the files that I am trying to transfer, but I can't seem to find a utility that will succesfully interpret both APE mirror partitions, MyIDE, and subdirectories on both, or allow copying files from inside a subdirectory on APE to a subdirectory on MyIDE.

Atari Commander, for example, does not appear to recognize or navigate subdirectories on APE, but instead sees them as files. I can't figure out how to get MyDOS to copy from inside one directory to another, and have problems with any file copy that involves more than a few files.

I've tried backing up the MyIDE partition with MyIDETool, but can't successfully open the ATR file with any of the ATR utilities on the PC.

I wish there was a file copy utility that was able to copy entire directories from APE to MyIDE, or even copy everything including subdirectories and their contents.

Thanks!


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 Post subject: PC utility stuff:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2009 3:05 pm 
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Location: Arizona USA
http://www.atarimax.com/flashcart/forum/viewtopic.php?t=491

My favorite is the MakeAtr v.0.6. I then use the Myidetool and put my new ATR onto the CF card. CF card has to be previously partitioned by MrAtari's Fdisk program, and the ATR has to be the same size as the partition.

If I misunderstood your request just ignore this.

What DOS are you using. With MyDos I use the 'C'opy command and *.* from the APE directory to the MYIDE directory.



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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2009 3:32 pm 

Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2005 6:47 pm
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Greetings,

I'm using MyDos, and the copy command does work, it is just that I'm trying to put hundreds of files on my disk, and since MyDos only permits 64 files per directory (for my purposes, 62, allowing for other things that appear in a directory listing such as ".." or APE's "up" listing). This means creating about 104 directories then copying 62 files into each one.

I was using Atari Commander to avoid typing c, D6:*.*,D: etc... each time, but AC doesn't work correctly with APE mirror's directory navigation; that is, the "up" entry does not function.

Basically I wondered if there was an alternative to Atari Commander that might be compatible with APE Mirror.

Before starting this thread, I did try to open one of my partition images from MyIDETool using MakeATR, but it couldn't open it and I therefore couldn't add files to it to send back to the CF card. I assumed that MakeATR wasn't compatible with the ATR files created with MyIDETool. If MakeATR is supposed to work, I wonder what I'm doing wrong.

What I would ultimately like to do is take filled directory structure from the PC and copy it to MyIDE in any way possible, preferably not via the "mount one APE Mirror directory at a time and enter a command line for each file operation" method, since I would have to do that more than 100 times.

The structure would look something like this:
A
-A_1
-A_2
-A_3
-A_4
B
-B_1
-B_2
-B_3
-B_4

and so on... each subdirectory such as A_1 would contain 62 files.

Another (perhaps related) issue that I've run into is executables that will run over APE, but will not work once copied to a MyIDE directory. I don't know if this means that the APE file copy failed or that some programs will refuse to run from a MyIDE drive, subdirectory, or some other cause.

Thanks!


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2009 8:23 pm 

Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2005 7:46 am
Posts: 48
I actually broke my files into 64 entries per directory - I found out that it would take 2 16 meg HD drives to hold them all - with the 4 partition limit it seemed like alot. Then the HD got corrupted and I didnt want to sit through all that copying again.

Agree it is a pain.

I tried to use my Diamond cart, but it wouldnt work with MyIDE and its really slow with large directories.



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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2009 8:41 pm 

Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2005 6:47 pm
Posts: 85
Hmmm...

So I assume you didn't get a backup of your partitions before they died. Were you working with a specific collection?

I also tried the Diamond GOS cart, but something didn't work (can't recall what) and for some reason my mouse wasn't working with the disk based versions of Diamond so I couldn't test those. I really wish Diamond was an option!

I'm going to keep trying different things until I succeed. I'm presently building an SIO2IDE, since it allows the drive to be connected to a PC and setup there (FAT file system), so if nothing else I can try to duplicate the contents of my SIO2IDE drive to the (internal) MyIDE.

I'm surprised there is no utility that allows one to copy everything from one drive number to another, including subdirectories and their contents. There seem to be several great hard disk options for Atari 8-bits, but the file management is stuck in 1988! Menu driven and command line stuff is just too cumbersome when 100s or 1000s of files need to be tamed.

I did find a more recent version of Atari Commander (1.81) so I'll see if it behaves any differently. I doubt that it handles APE mirror properly which still means a dead end.

Thanks!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 1:58 am 

Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2003 12:21 am
Posts: 251
I haven't been able to find a recursive file copy for MyDOS, but they exist for SpartaDOS. I used Tom's Navigator once, but you can only copy one directory at a time. It was better than nothing.

I'm working on a FAT12/16 reader for MyIDE, but it won't help you with this problem. It will eventually do one-off file copying from a FAT formated CF card (put into 8-bit mode). At least that is the goal.

Someone needs to write a recursive file copier for MyDOS... or dig one up and post it. Are there some documents that describe the MyDOS directory structure? Also, one of the issues is that the PC-Mirror isn't like a normal file system (AFAIK), and directories aren't really directories in the sense of MyDOS or SpartaDOS.



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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 5:04 pm 

Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2005 6:47 pm
Posts: 85
Some time ago, I was thinking about trying to write a simple utility for the purposes of drive/directory structure duplication. I never did determine whether any of the incarnations of BASIC or other languages would support MyDOS and directories, and I'm guessing that the way APE does directory navigation would make things more complicated.

I don't just need to copy directory structures from one drive to another - I need to be able to copy from APE Mirror, which as you say does not present directories in a way that MyDOS applications can specifically understand. APE's implementation is smart because it is OS independent, but it would be nice if it had an option to make it emulate at least one specific OS implementation of tree navigation.

APE seems intended to stay connected to the Atari, when my entire goal is to get the Atari loaded up, then unplugging it from the PC for general use. So far, I'm not having much success using APE to efficiently load up the MyIDE hard drive.

I'll have to do some searching and see if I can locate more information on MyDOS.

The MyDOS TECH.DOC here may offer some help:

http://www.mathyvannisselroy.nl/mydos.htm

And some programs to try out:

Toms Navigator
http://inflacja.net/mkur/code/tn/

BOSS-X and Copy Files'N'Folders
http://andymanone.dyndns.org/atarixle/boss/copyfnf.htm
http://andymanone.dyndns.org/atarixle/boss/bossx.htm

So far, it appears that Atari Commander 1.81 and Toms Commander both are unable to copy the contents of MyDOS subdirectories, but can navigate them.

I made a MyDOS disk with TurboBasic and ran CopyFNF, which does seem to successfully copy full directory structures.

I don't imagine it will work with APE Mirrors, but I think I can make an ATR file with MakeATR, fill it on the PC, then mount the image with APE, boot with the Turbobasic/CopyFNF disk for the file transfer.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 6:37 am 
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Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2003 4:37 pm
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Location: Arizona USA
Crash wrote:
Greetings,

I'm using MyDos, and the copy command does work, it is just that I'm trying to put hundreds of files on my disk, and since MyDos only permits 64 files per directory (for my purposes, 62, allowing for other things that appear in a directory listing such as ".." or APE's "up" listing). This means creating about 104 directories then copying 62 files into each one.

I was using Atari Commander to avoid typing c, D6:*.*,D: etc... each time, but AC doesn't work correctly with APE mirror's directory navigation; that is, the "up" entry does not function.

Basically I wondered if there was an alternative to Atari Commander that might be compatible with APE Mirror.

Before starting this thread, I did try to open one of my partition images from MyIDETool using MakeATR, but it couldn't open it and I therefore couldn't add files to it to send back to the CF card. I assumed that MakeATR wasn't compatible with the ATR files created with MyIDETool. If MakeATR is supposed to work, I wonder what I'm doing wrong.
<SNIP>
Thanks!

:?
I have noticed that an extracted partition that has mypicodos boot option installed can not be opened with MakeAtr. So I make all my Atr's under Emulation and only boot with Mypdosn.com. Myidetool does not change the atr in any way that I have noticed.
You should give MakeAtr & Myidetool combination another try. I have used Toms Navigator with good results also. I rarely use the PCmirror function of APE except a place to dump files from atr's.



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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 5:05 pm 

Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2005 6:47 pm
Posts: 85
I may try to figure out what is happening with MakeATR being unable to read my partition backups, but it is somewhat less critical since I've gotten some of the other things working.

In testing Toms Navigator, I've been getting system hangs that occur after a file copy, so I put that aside. Atari Commander 1.81 can navigate and copy files from directories (non-recursively) with no problems so far.

Copy Files'N'Folders from the BOSS-X package does seem to work properly and will copy recursively. I think it will only copy the selected directory (including any files or subdirectories contained within) but this is still much easier than any other alternative. It is said that this program is beta, and does not have any error traps or overwrite checking, but that isn't a concern for me right now since I'm copying to a blank partition.

I've created an empty directory structure in MakeATR, backed it up, and am now filling the structure with files. When I'm finished, I'll try to transfer the whole thing over by mounting it in APE and using Copyfnf.

Hopefully I'll have something to post here that will save others some of the labor involved.

My latest snag is that the collections of executables I have use long filenames, and these are not converted effectively by MakeATR, so I'm trying to find a utility to convert the collection before copying the files to the ATR.

Cheers!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2009 8:20 pm 

Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2005 6:47 pm
Posts: 85
I'm experimenting with CopyFNF under Turbobasic, although one significant problem is that I can't seem to get any of the High Speed/Warp Speed patches to work with it. They either get kicked out of memory when TB loads, or hang the system if I try to BRUN them.

Stock speed from APE is making each test pass take many hours.

Any ideas?


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 Post subject: Copy FNF
PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2009 8:35 pm 
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Joined: Tue Nov 18, 2003 11:27 pm
Posts: 60
Location: Boot Factory BBS
Where's this CopyFNF program available? I'd like to play with it.



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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2009 8:46 pm 

Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2005 6:47 pm
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Here is a booting ATR with TurboBasic and CopyFNF set to autorun. I left the high speed patch out of this version (the Atari is busy right now). This one will work in Atari800Win.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 2:05 pm 

Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2005 6:47 pm
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Alas, CopyFNF is having an error with its swap file after copying around 600 files. I tried moving the swap file to a 16mb MyIDE partition as well as to an APE Mirror partition, and enabling "direct copying". Time to see if I can locate the author(s) and find out if they have any ideas.


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 Post subject: Re: File management utility suggestions?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 5:12 pm 

Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2005 9:54 pm
Posts: 65
Crash wrote:
Greetings,

Can anyone suggest any utility that can be used to copy files between APE and MyIDE?

I've been trying to figure out a way to copy a large number of files to a MyIDE hard drive, but keep running into obstacles. I have the computer attached via APE to a PC with all the files that I am trying to transfer, but I can't seem to find a utility that will succesfully interpret both APE mirror partitions, MyIDE, and subdirectories on both, or allow copying files from inside a subdirectory on APE to a subdirectory on MyIDE.

Atari Commander, for example, does not appear to recognize or navigate subdirectories on APE, but instead sees them as files. I can't figure out how to get MyDOS to copy from inside one directory to another, and have problems with any file copy that involves more than a few files.

I've tried backing up the MyIDE partition with MyIDETool, but can't successfully open the ATR file with any of the ATR utilities on the PC.

I wish there was a file copy utility that was able to copy entire directories from APE to MyIDE, or even copy everything including subdirectories and their contents.

Thanks!
For Linux we have one of Hias Reichl's other utiltities, called dir2atr. It will take an entire subdirectory structure and attempt to stuff it into an ATR which the utility creates for you.

Works great. Of course, you still have the 63 file per directory limitation and organizing your folders on you PC that way can be a PITA. However, once you do this then getting everything into an ATR with a single command is just great.

Unfortunately, AFAIK, there is not a Windows version of this utility (AFAIK) but there is at least one convoluted option and possibly another.

If you create a FAT32 partition for Windows you can use yet another of Hias' utilities, the bootdisk version of Atarisio, a disk emulator similar to APE but for the linux environment. You don't litterally have to launch it from a bootdisk but you would have to boot our old friend DOS on your FAT32 partition and launch it from there.

once the Atariserver (the file server component of the Atarisio package) is initiated you can just quit to the CLI, mount your FAT32 partition, run dir2atr against your subdirectory tree thus creating your ATR. (Did I mention this method is convoluted).

I just tested this method and it works. (BTW, I migrated, long ago, from Win9x to linux but I still have Fat32 partitions).

The second option wrote of earlier is to install cygwin. This is a linux-like environment for Windows. You would then have to obtain the source code of dir2atr and compile it. It should work but I don't know that it does.

Hope you find either of these ideas useful

- Steve Sheppard


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 5:21 pm 

Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2005 6:47 pm
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I may give this a try with a Linux liveCD and see what happens. Every other available option seems to be too labor intensive.


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